How important are the Certifications?

earlyfly

"Testing Certifications" Are these really important?
Does the certifications really really help while actual testing? and
How?
There are several certifications CSTE/ CSQA / ISTQB / ISEB
which one is the best one? and what are the possible differences?
Do certifications trainings also teach us the different softwares
available for testing?
Thanks
Binayak

不丹蝶

I need to prepare a dissertation for my undergraduate course, and i think this topic is very intersting. But i do not know if it is suitable for English major?

lovetesting52

In my opinion,certification is a good tools for those whose major isn't computer and information.By trainning they can get certifications ,and this helps them find a better job.But the best way of improving testing skill depends on personal effort.learing other skills and acculate experiences,and alway summary how to do better.

AlexanderIII

good discussion.

earlyfly

You left out the best one - CSQE.  Certified Software Quality
Engineer, by the American Society for Quality.  Testing is only a
small subset of the larger software quality realm.  The CSQE covers
all aspects of software quality, not just testing.  Other areas
include requirements management, configuration management, process
management, metrics, inspections and audits.  If you only want to be a
software tester, than a CSTE or one of the others might be enough for
you.  But if you want to be a leader in software quality and move up
the management ranks, the CSQE is definitely the way to go.

earlyfly

Hi b,
Good post. When I mentioned they give you a standard terminology I did
indeed forget to mention that it is kind of pointless. You made the
point I should have done in my post in that every company calls
artifacts and processes differently. A test case in company 1 may be a
test plan in company 2 etc.
I'm all with you with the (http://www.testingeducation.org/BBST/)
being the best resource available for Freshers. The net is full of
wonderful resources and information. I still believe you can sit and
read all of the information in the world and be able to reel it all
off, but still not be a good tester. Believe me, I've worked with many
people like that. I've also worked with someone who failed his first
ISEB foundation course but was one of the best testers I've ever
worked with.
Testing for me comes down to risk management, communication, personal
motivation and attention to detail, many of these things can only
really be learnt in situ.
Rob

earlyfly

Someone in this thread mentioned the lack of trust that would be given
to a Doctor that was not certified.  To that, I will respond: If you
doctor sat through a two and a half day course and wrote a multiple
choice exam to get his certification, would you then trust him?  I
think not.  Certification requirements for testing jobs are usually a
requirement due to HR staff that don't know anything about software
testing and the requirement becomes a way to filter resumes.
Unfortunately, this eliminates some very skilled talent from their
search pool.
Depending on some locales, it may near impossible to get an interview
for a job without one of these BS certifications.  If so, then I
understand the need to get the certification to get a job.  In North
America, it would be much better for the field to refuse jobs that
require the certifications altogether (though there are plenty of jobs
that are easy to get without them).  If a prospective employer
requires this certification, they will not be receiving a resume from
me.
To those that say they provide a standardisation of the terminology:
So what?  Terminology will change with every new job, and sometimes
different project teams.  If you want to spend a lot of money for
someone to "Standardise" your language, I think you would be wasting
your money.  The testing field is often hurt by certified (and
uncertified) testers who need to enforce the "right" terminology,
testing technique, report template, process, etc on the rest of the
development team.  Testing is a service provided to many different
stakeholders on a project and it is up to the test team to adapt, not
enforce.
If you really want to become a better tester, there are plenty of
places to improve your knowledge and skills.  Plenty of books, blogs,
and groups out there that can help you out.  If you are a fresher (or
have been testing for a while but want to improve your skills), I
highly recommend the FREE (yes, free.  No strings attached), Black Box
Software Testing Course (BBST) created by Cem Kaner and James Bach
(http://www.testingeducation.org/BBST/).  While certifications may
introduce some terminology and techniques at a very high level, the
BBST course will cover this material as well as teach you to apply the
techniques and become a better thinker about testing.  When I'm
looking for staff, certification on a resume often makes me wary of
their true skills as the behavioral and technical parts of the
interview are often of low value for these testers (I get a lot of
buzzwords, but no in depth understanding of them, often a complete
misuse of the terms).  I will take an uncertified, untrained fresher
if they can demonstrate a thirst for knowledge and come across as
completely honest.
Get your foot in the door as a tester, work hard on your skills and
knowledge and certifications will not be a neccesity on your resume to
get an interview.  If in your part of the world, it is a neccesity to
have the certification, then take hte certification for what it is, a
means of getting interviewed.  But please don't think because you are
certified that you can stop learning, thinking and analysing your
skills. You will be a better tester for it.
Regards,
-b

earlyfly

Hiya,
Get them if time and finances allow. The study will enlighten you and
the certificates will make employers/clients feel more confident.
Anything that you do that helps you learn and be more saleable in your
career is good.
Just don't assume it's the be all and end all.
Mark Crowther

earlyfly

In my opinion, Testing certifications demonstrate minimum skills one
possesses. All these certifications are formulated after a thorough
Body of knowledge, so unless and until one knows he cannot pass, so it
is good to take these certifications.
An analogy, one may have medine knowledge and an excellent physician
but unless he has a medical degree no one will trust him
Thanks,
Govind
www.enjoytesting.com

earlyfly

Thanks for your reply friend,
Your thoughts are good.
I am a Fresher and working in the testing field for last 6 months.
I live in Nepal and there are no such institutions or even exam
centers where I can learn and get certified. Whereas my good internet
friends and internet itself provides me with a lot of exam preparation
materials.
I think the people don't believe that one has enough testing knowledge
without the certificate.
I am in confusion. Shall I go to India and gain the certification or
build my knowledge by studying all those required for the
certification here in my country (Which I have started already)....
Show me a way my friend.
Thanks again for your elaborate suggestions,
Binayak

earlyfly

Hi,
There are a few calls of thought on this one. My personal opinion is
that it gives people a very basic understanding of testing,
terminology and ultimately it makes getting an interview easier. In
fact most places will not accept an interviewee if they have not got a
certification.
However, being certified does not make you a good tester. Being able
to reel of predictable answers will not get you a job in most places.
Being able to explain how you work and what you do as part of your
testing in simple, clear yet knowledgeable communication is ultimately
better than any certification.
There is a quality blog posting by James Bach which kind of sums up
the whole certification business.
http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/130
Ultimately, if people sit the certification and then assume they know
everything about software testing then they are fooling themselves.
Take the course, then read everything you can about the subject online
and in books. There are so many free resources out there that there is
no excuse at all for not teaching yourself about testing. True - most
of the valuable experience comes from working in testing and learning
as you go, but if you are serious about software testing - then get
reading.
Anyone can pass the ISTQB/ISEB exams without ever working in the
testing field as they are simply a case of study for a week, sit a
multiple choice exam and then get the certification. Simple. Put that
person in a high stress, demanding and requirements fluctuating
environment and they will probably sink. Being a tester is more than
knowing the certification stuff.
On the other hand though - go out and get the certification as without
it, you wont get a job.......
Rob

earlyfly

It's just like saying how my education till graduation/PG helps in my
job.
Then how certifications help?
1> If you are fresher or having 2-4 yrs of experience, it gives you
EDGE over your peers in terms of knowledge/skills.
2> Quality Certifications gives you altogether different perspective
to look at towards testing and how to go for testing.
Getting certified doesn't matter at all if you don't study or study
minimal to get certified and just for sake of getting certified or to
put that in resume. Therefore if you want job and u think
certification will increase your value, then you are fool.
Certifications don't fetch jobs, they only fetch interview calls. If
you seriously studied then only you can give detailed answers of
questions asked in interviews. I know my friend who spoke for 5 min in
interview when asked to tell what constitutes test plan? Can you do
that? If know and you are certified then what's use? You are no
different that others. But if can, then you are a gem. So getting
certified is useless and shame full if your knowledge can not justify
that you are certified.
Putting certified stamp on resume without knowledge, is just like like
DEVEGOWDA getting PM seat. No ability but by chance poor farmer rule
India. If you don't have virtue and guts to justify that you are
certified, don't go for certification. It's useless.
Getting certified these days become fashion just because they are
cheap, easy availability, easy exam pattern [only objective questions
without negative marking] etc. More passing percentage attracts people
most towards certifications.
In fact most of us in testing community want EASY and CHEAP
certification.
I criticize ISTQB for that. [Dislike my remark!!! You can argue] I
know people who wake up on Sunday, get ready, gave ISTQB and got
Certified.
ISTQB should raise its bar [in terms of difficulty of exam, passing %,
subjective questions along with objective] or it should be ONLY for
people having 1.5 or less yrs experience. If I am wrong then why
passing % of ISTQB aspirants is more than 80 and for CSTE it's not
more that 40. How many people appear for advanced ISTQB exam? I guess
very few. How many of us recertify once certification expired?
It's not certifications which decide your depth in testing but your
core competencies in vast testing arena.
Getting certified does matter a lot only when you study seriously for
certifications, it adds to your knowledge which you can implement in
your workplace.
And maybe, getting certified doesn't matter at all but while you study
seriously for certifications, it adds to your knowledge which you can
implement in your workplace.
I can know difference between all certification as I am ISTQB and CSTE
certified tester.
Please give your suggestion on how certification help individual
tester.